People should be free to talk of a revolution.
They are not free to advocate an armed revolt against the US governement without suffering certain consequences.
jonathan dough
JoinedPosts by jonathan dough
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
They do advocate shutting me up TO MY FAMILY if I say anything against them. Yet they are free to demonize me.
They do advocate governmental curtailing of other religions' rights.We're talking about the law and your freedom of speech under the first amendment. They are not gagging you, but restricting their members, your family, from speaking with you in different ways. That doesn't violate the first amendment. The government hasn't passed a law prohibiting you from talking to them. If their demonization of you amounts to defamation then sue them. That's your right. But banning them isn't the answer. And I challenge you to illustrate one instance where they "advocate governmental curtailing of other religions' rights," in this world, now today, like the Russians are attempting to do.
We're talking about the real world, the here and now, not a future theocracy and God's ultimate removal of wicked governments. And they aren't advocating the removal of current governments by men, and they are fully within their rights to want to obey the government that they subscribe to- the supposed theocracy, as distasteful as that might be; the more distasteful the more protected their religious free speech. They aren't claiming that man should go in and overturn current governments. You know that's not true. And advocating to God that he overturn Satan's governments is likewise within their rights.
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John Doe & other leagles: Is JW Supreme Court record LAW 101?
by Open mind inthe jw urban legend i've heard my whole life is that first-year law students routinely hear about the jw's record before the u.s. supreme court.. .
what was your experience?.
om.
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jonathan dough
Thanks JeffT & Blondie. I knew the cases were real, but was curious about where they registered on the average law student's radar.
JD?
Not sure what that means. What is register and what is radar? Law students in general don't account for much and don't know all that much while students. Enough to get in trouble. You need to ask a Constitutional lawyer that question. And he/she will tell you it depends on the issue being litigated. Then it matters if there is a relevant case or controversy. Until then it's just hypothetical what-ifs. If those decisions will make or break the case, then it's important to both sides. Some of the JW Supreme Court victories and losses are substantial by no stretch of the imagination.
Here is some info on their cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_cases_involving_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_by_country
I only wish the JWs would acknowledge all the work the ACLU has done on their behalf instead of villifying them. In that sense the JWs are hypocritical.
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
It appears that Russia told them what they needed to stop doing, yet they keep doing it. They seem to have been very patient with the WTS.
So, for the sake of "their rights," WTS could continue to promote the destruction of families and the sacrifice of children to the members, but they couldn't carry it to the public. They could continue to implant fears in the minds of their captives and teach them to hate former members, other religions, education, birthdays and holidays.
On second thought, ban the whole thing. It's hate and fear and dangerous
But this is EXACTLY what the Nazis preached. Listen to yourself. They have the right, as distasteful as it is. You're no better than they are if you ban them. At least they don't go that far. Nowhere do they advocate shutting you up or using the government to curtail other religion's rights by law. They have the right to preach that they are the only Christians and all others are Satanists just like you have the right to claim they are sacrificying children and that they are the true Satanists.
It's hypocritical to deny them their rights. Speaking of which, it must be conceded that they've done far more to protect your freedom of speech and religion than many others, even if it was self motivated. They have gone to great lengths to secure for you the right to advocate for their complete banning. The problem with a lot of the people on this board, who have been hurt and burned and have every reason to be bitter and angry with them, is that they paint with a broad stroke, too broad, and force generalities when in fact the JWs are not bad in everything they do. Fact. There are some good JWs. Fact. They just happen to be wrong about most of their theology and how they apply it to the real world. Don't be a facist or communist. You're better than that.
Now, just to qualify what I said, I also think they are a Jones Town cult even though they don't know it. When THAT line has been crossed, I would hope the government does the right thing and steps in before it is too late. It's not there yet.
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
Since 2000 all countries where WTS operate. operate under the same donation to the "worldwide work" operation.
Thanks. Although we know that calling it a donation is a legal fiction.
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
Freedom of worship ends where child sacrifice begins. Even in the "freedom of religion" US, parents can't slaughter their children in sacrifice to "god". Yet, that is what Watchtower Corp. does when insisting refusal of blood, clearly in the case of children, but similarly with the threat of disfellowshipping for adults. It becomes human sacrifice.
Maybe, but banning a religion outright not only violates the US Constitution (I know we're talking about Russia) and the Bill or Rights, but it's akin to burning down the forest to keep warm. It's a slippery, and illegal, position that can come back to haunt and would never pass constitutional muster regardless of what anyone thinks or wants. As such it is pointless to advocate it here. Besides, there might be other means of dealing with the problem while at the same time preserving our cherished First Amendment rights.
For instance, there are laws on the books right now that could MAYBE curtail their activities. Tort actions (wrongful death and intentional infliction of emotional distress), Defamation (slander and libel), a civil claim for damages resulting from extortion, false imprisonment, perhaps, federal and state stalking laws, .... I'm sure there are more, invasion of privacy. Look into their finances - maybe you'll find something. It probably hasn't been tried yet on a large scale, but it will in the future. Class actions are a powerful tool.
With respect to sacrificing children on behalf of the blood prohibition, I don't know what the law is. But banning the religion outright is unamerican and highly unlikely. And when the day comes (which might be closer than we think) that the government can dictate what they say and write, then we all need to run for cover. It is happening in Canada already, labeling anti-gay sermons as hate speech. Let's hope we never sink to their level although the WW I era might resurrect its ugly head. And, as far as "sacrificing those children to a god" I believe the courts uphold that right or am I wrong on this? I don't know what the law is and it might be a state by state issue, but how else can parents get away with witholding blood transfusions unless it is legal here in the US?
By the way, does anyone know if they "sell" their literature in other countries or if they only take "contributions" like in the US?
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
Freedoms can extend only so far...
I didn't say anything about religion.
Freedom of speech and religion can't be separated here. You can't muzzle them and claim you respect their right to be a religion. Not in this country, not with our Bill of Rights. Those who ban or advocate that are no better in the long run.
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
While I am all for free speech,
You can't be for free speech and freedom of religion and turn around and think they should be banned.
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
Does anybody know:
Are there forums or boards like this in the Russian language where the truth about the Society can be discussed and falsehoods dispelled? How much anti-JW literature is available over there?
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106
Russian JWs in Serious Trouble - about to be banned
by Dogpatch inalthough it has been leading up to this for a long time, it appears russia has made up their mind to get rid of "extremist" groups by banning them, and jws are pretty much at the top of the list.
the last few years under putin they have been giving them heaps of trouble.. .
i am not for bans as it usually backfires, but under the "new" admnistration it looks like hard-core responses are in order.
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jonathan dough
They're Russians. Many still glorify Stalin. Their government is dangerous and backwards, and they're wrong. The very idea of the Bill of Rights is foreign to them. Where do they stop if they ban the JWs? Go after the members of this forum? Plenty of religious hatred and extremism here. Maybe they could go back to the pogroms and run all the Jews out while they're at it. I will defend the JWsright to exist as a religion to the death, as distasteful and absolutely wrong their theories are. Fear Putin. Yes, fear Ras-Putin. The Russian prosecutors are saying exactly what the Pharisees said.
http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-6.html#33
JD II